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Burlesque Womens Institute
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Miss Baby Bones
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Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 5644
Location: Brighton
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 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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at the risk of sounding like a total bastard, lol, if you want to look different then you should be prepared for the stick you'll get from the townie oiks.
it would be foolish not to expect it.
xxx
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Miss Honey Bare
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 200
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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But it's not just Chavs, it's just public in general.
Everyone knows that chavs are gonna have a go, doesn't mean it's ok. And people being jumped and beaten for
being who they are is just awful.
But I have heard of chavs coming unstuck at times. A few years ago, a couple of chavs started on a couple of goths walking along the canal after leaving the devonshire (now the hobgoblin...but you knew that)...the chavs tried to mug them, but ended up getting a kicking by the goths (new rocks can really do some damage...did they not realise this? duh!) and ended up in the canal!
I just think this whole pre-concieved idea that alternative people are bad/evil/satan worshipping/amoral/difficult/freaks is stupid and people need to realise that we are in fact 'normal'. I have found that generally (though, of course, not always) 'alternative' people tend to be more accepting, open minded and well adjusted than the average Joe/Joanna! |
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Herr Geist
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 4956
Location: Brighton, England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to go ahead and agree with Boney here. If you dress different than everyone else, you must be prepared to get negative attention from EVERYONE else. Not just ignorant chavs. Chavs are easy to spot because of how they dress so it's like an early warning sign that stupidity is coming your way. People that dress normal may be tolerant of alternative styles of clothing, but they also may not. Consider their normal mode of dress a form of urban camouflage. It's quite possible they're going to hate you even more than the chavs might.
Don't give other people credit and don't mistake what it means to dress differently than everyone else. If you make a spectacle out of yourself, you have to be ready for negative attention. If you can't handle that attention, find a nice pair of jeans and a t-shirt that will keep you from being assaulted.
I've been dressing different since I was a teenager and I've had more than my share of idiots saying things, throwing things, and getting straight out violent with me. I knew what I was getting myself into. In this world, you will pay a price for your "individuality". That's just something you have to accept. In fact, if you DIDN'T get the negative attention, then you're not doing it right.
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Miss Honey Bare
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 200
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Herr Geist wrote: | I'm going to go ahead and agree with Boney here. If you dress different than everyone else, you must be prepared to get negative attention from EVERYONE else. Not just ignorant chavs. Chavs are easy to spot because of how they dress so it's like an early warning sign that stupidity is coming your way. People that dress normal may be tolerant of alternative styles of clothing, but they also may not. Consider their normal mode of dress a form of urban camouflage. It's quite possible they're going to hate you even more than the chavs might.
Don't give other people credit and don't mistake what it means to dress differently than everyone else. If you make a spectacle out of yourself, you have to be ready for negative attention. If you can't handle that attention, find a nice pair of jeans and a t-shirt that will keep you from being assaulted.
I've been dressing different since I was a teenager and I've had more than my share of idiots saying things, throwing things, and getting straight out violent with me. I knew what I was getting myself into. In this world, you will pay a price for your "individuality". That's just something you have to accept. In fact, if you DIDN'T get the negative attention, then you're not doing it right. |
I disagree. It's not acceptable to be abusive to anyone for the way that they are. Whether it be because of the way you dress, your sexual orientation etc. And just saying 'well, ya' know, it happens, deal with it!' is like giving up and condoning it. And I don't believe that I can hide who or what I am because I am honest with myself.
Fine, I 'choose' to look/be like this, but no more than a gay person 'chooses' to be themsleves, or a muslim who 'chooses' to be themselves.
Do you really think it's ok for people to throw shit at you simply because you're different? When I was younger and things seemed to go wrong I always said to my mum 'it's not fair!' and she would reply 'life isn't fair!'...well you know what, what's wrong with trying to make it fair anyway, rather than just saying 'it happens'?
I'm very passionate about this, I was a very 'mousy' person as a child and growing up I was relentlessly bullied in various and hideous ways. I was shy, introverted and wouldn't say boo to a goose, but always felt there was someone bursting to get out. It wasn't until I was 21 that I gave that person the reigns and 'came out' as it were. I still get shit, but for standing out. Difference is, I stand up for myself now.
I have to rush to a meeting now (snor).
I don't want to seem like a mardy arse, but I just get really worked up over stuff like this 
-x- |
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Herr Geist
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 4956
Location: Brighton, England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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*sigh* Okay.... go get some tea or somethin' first. This is gonna take a little while.
| Miss Honey Bare wrote: | I disagree. It's not acceptable to be abusive to anyone for the way that they are. Whether it be because of the way you dress, your sexual orientation etc. And just saying 'well, ya' know, it happens, deal with it!' is like giving up and condoning it. And I don't believe that I can hide who or what I am because I am honest with myself.
Fine, I 'choose' to look/be like this, but no more than a gay person 'chooses' to be themsleves, or a muslim who 'chooses' to be themselves. |
I would never personally abuse anyone for being different, but you cannot lump clothing choices in with sexual orientation, religion, or race. You DO choose how you dress. Being gay, black, or Jewish are not choices. You're born that way. It cannot be helped. For example... if you're born an Iraqi person, even if you denounce your entire culture and live your life as a white protestant Christian, you will still be discriminated against and people will shout "terrorist" at you on the street. Even worse, your own people present more of a danger to you because now you've turned your back on your people. I have a friend who is gay and wishes that he was not because he knows his father will kill him (and he's not exaggerating, I've met his dad) if he ever finds out. He can't tell anyone and he has to live in secret. He can't just change his clothes when he leaves the house to solve his problem. Go tell a gay activist how you're similar to them because you get shit for the way you dress. See how similar you feel after that.
How do you keep your ass from getting beat if you're a goth? Easy. You change your clothes! I find it almost offensive that you would include a style of fashion with any of these other minority groups. In fact, being alternative is such a great thing because it IS a choice. It's a celebration of human independence and the right to make choices. Don't treat it like some affliction that can't be helped. You're discrediting what being alternative stands for because you don't like being treated badly. Wear what you want and be proud of it. I have tattoos and I like dressing like a metalhead. I have chosen my path in life accordingly. I am not a teacher, though I could be. I am not a CEO, though I could be. I am not working in some stuffy office somewhere, though I could be. I chose to be different because that's how I feel comfortable and I am really glad that I have the choice to do so. If I have to fight for it, I will. There is no way to stand out from the norm and be completely loved and accepted by everyone.
The problem we have now is that there are people out there who dress alternative but don't have the strength or conviction to stand proudly behind it and fight for it. The ideals behind the clothing are what is important. You stand alone against the rest of the world and make your statements because no one else will. When people started dressing goth, punk, whatever, it was meant to be a way to show your desire to go against the grain. The clothing was a reflection of what was inside you. That you were willing to be strong and fight for what you thought was right. This meant taking on the bad and laughing it away. Or fighting if necessary. Now that dressing alternative is nothing more than a bland fashion statement, we have people whining how they should be treated fairly no matter how they dress. GOOD FUCKIN LORD what have we turned into? Don't even get me started on people who listen to Black Flag but can't fight their own battles. *SCREAMS* God, people make me sick.
| Miss Honey Bare wrote: | | Do you really think it's ok for people to throw shit at you simply because you're different? When I was younger and things seemed to go wrong I always said to my mum 'it's not fair!' and she would reply 'life isn't fair!'...well you know what, what's wrong with trying to make it fair anyway, rather than just saying 'it happens'? |
Your mother has the right of it. Life ISN'T fair. No, you cannot change that. You'd like to. EVERYONE would like to, but think of it like this. If YOU want life to be fair to YOUR ideals, and THEY want life to be fair to THEIR ideals, we come full-circle and everyone's individual rights for the sake of fairness start to tread all over each other. Then, we have conflict again. It's the pursuit of a FAIR life that makes life UNFAIR. There will always be conflict until someone comes along and teaches people what acceptance truly is, but as long as there is ignorance in this world, life will never be fair and no amount of laws or special interest groups or charity is going to change that. Ever. Period. It's just the nature of the human race.
Besides, you don't HAVE to dress different to love a certain style of music or a certain culture. You just do. It's just like a white person choosing to be Muslim. They don't have to, but they do. Will they ever be called a terrorist? Not if they don't wear the clothes and don't tell anyone.
| Miss Honey Bare wrote: | | I'm very passionate about this, I was a very 'mousy' person as a child and growing up I was relentlessly bullied in various and hideous ways. I was shy, introverted and wouldn't say boo to a goose, but always felt there was someone bursting to get out. It wasn't until I was 21 that I gave that person the reigns and 'came out' as it were. I still get shit, but for standing out. Difference is, I stand up for myself now. |
That's great. Now you're out. And you've had hardships that should make you strong, but it sounds to me like you think it's time to "push back" and you're not thinking about it logically. It all comes down to this. Unless you can sit down with each individual person who dislikes what you or your clothing/tattoos represent and make them see the light, you cannot change the world. Since there are billions of them and maybe a few million of us all over the world, it's not a battle we're gonna win. Benefit concerts, charities, awareness rallies, etc. You know what those accomplish? Nothing. Nothing except giving a bunch of like-minded people a place to gather and meet each other. That's it. You wanna change people? You wanna make them more tolerant? Start with those close to you. Make them see that you're a good person and express your ideals in a logical and convincing way. You may convert one person. Then they might convert or inspire one person. And so it goes. But we will never be accepted completely and we will never have it easy if we choose to keep dressing like we do. Why do you think there are so many older people that USED to be goth or punk but aren't anymore? They got tired of fighting and to solve their problem, they changed their clothes. But they're still liberals and they're still thinking the same.
| Miss Honey Bare wrote: | I have to rush to a meeting now (snor).
I don't want to seem like a mardy arse, but I just get really worked up over stuff like this
-x- |
Meetings suck.
I've gotta go dye my roots black like I have every 2 weeks for the past 14 years.
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Miss Honey Bare
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 200
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Oooo-kay...
This has gotten a little bit mental. My original point was simply that people should be able to be accepted. That it shouldn't matter if you've got a bit of ink and steel and commenting on the fact that I hate the shit I get sometimes. And I do stick up for myself. And I do put up with the crap, otherwise I would've turned and run already. I don't see myself as whiney in the least, just fucked off and ready to put anyone who gives me shit to rights.
Being a bi-sexual women who has been in long term relationships with women, I lump how I look into the same group 'cos it all feels the same to me when people start getting abusive.
It's abusive whether they're shouting 'dyke' or ' frankenstein' or 'dykey bride of frankenstein'...lol....yes, I really have heard that one before.
Blargh, anyway all this heated debate has made me excited...need to get home and have a cold shower 
14 years of dying your roots...now that's what I call dedication dude! 
Have fun!
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Herr Geist
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 4956
Location: Brighton, England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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And my point, explained at length, is that people aren't going to be accepting. We started dressing this way so people wouldn't treat us the same. We wanted to stand out so people might pay attention. That always comes with a backlash.
So, really, you just have to suck it up.
I'm not trying to be mean. Once you actually see things for what they are, it all gets a lot easier to cope with. In fact, you get to laugh about it a lot. It becomes enjoyable and you feel great about things.
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Miss Baby Bones
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 5644
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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dye your roots every 2 weeks? i think id go mad! lol
your hair must grow quickly.
yeah i have to say, i cant be arsed to dress up any more. if im going out for something and actually do 'dress up', i like to take my big umbrella with me in preparation to defend myself.
if i wasnt prepared for abuse id make an easier target.
its a sad world but unfortunately thats the reality of it
xxx
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