| Archive for Burlesque Womens Institute For lovers of all things vintage and burlesque |
| sian kisses |
pin-up girls...does anyone have any pin up girl tattoos, or know a good artist.i really want a lovely pretty lady and kitty kat tattoo. photo's would be fabulous. xx |
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| Miss Baby Bones |
my friend katja in london loves doing that
www.myspace.com/atomica_tatu |
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| Thrilby |
BB yours freidns pics are great!
I have a pin up girl, oon the front of my hips. I had it done a few years ago at the tattoo's on Dean Street in Soho, but the girl who did it has moved on and I don't know where to 
She was great as I took in a very rough picture and we developed it together. I'm looking at stocking seams next |
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| Miss Baby Bones |
lol Thrilby surely for a vintage lover like you having tattooed seams is just a big fat cheat? 
and what if you then wear seamed stockings but those seams arent straight with your tattooed seams? imagine the hours you might spend with your back to the mirror trying to get them perfectly aligned... sorry im kidding 
yeah katja's fab. shes working in north london i think. just msg her if you're interested. or visit your local tattoo places and view their flash to see their styles. a good AND local tattooist is like gold dust. haha! xxx |
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| Violet Ecstasy |
I've heard that the seams kill at the back of the knee - yowch!
I'm thinking of getting a small tattoo (couple of inches) of cherries, but i'm worried that it might be a bit passé now, and I don't know where to put it. I have a rose on my stomach that I had done when I was 18 (nearly 12 years ago  ) I'm a bit restricted because of work, I was considering my ankle but I'm not sure whether I would get sick of it being there later on.  Oh the dilemma.
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| Miss Baby Bones |
if you're worried about work i wouldnt get your legs tattooed below the normal skirt line
unless you're very secure in your career never get lower legs, ankles, forearms, hands or neck tattoos. why secure yourself a lifetime of minimum wage jobs just for a tattoo? theres going to be a whole generation of idiots who all wanted to be the most tattooed person in their peer group, and then once they got over 25 realised they went too far. oh and all their retro style tattoos look the same! god it annoys me... violet i like cherries too hunny. its annoying they're so 'in' at the moment but if you like them, thats what you like so get them anyway. when they go out of fashion you'll still like them. how about your side or lower back? somewhere you can hide it. shoulder? dont go for your ankle unless you're prepared to wear trousers on hot summer days, just in case your job dont like it xxx |
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| Violet Ecstasy |
Yep that's what I'm thinking, and I'm already 8 years into my career so I'd be undoing a load of hard work if I suddenly started upsetting people. (Let's not say anything about my double life  )
I want to have one where I can show it off if I want to, I bought a pack of 10 temporary cherry tattoos so I could have a play about with placement, I've worn one on a shoot on my ankle and I wore another one (again on my ankle) for my Dad's birthday party. I haven't really tried putting them in other places, but back could be an option. Although I don't often have my back exposed. There is a PE teacher who has a thin tribal design along her ankle and she wears shorts so it is on show at the moment. Some of the kids have told me she has to wear a plaster over it but every time I've seen her she hasn't had a plaster on.
I might have to just stick with the transfers
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| Miss Vincent |
I'd love a tattoo. I've been seriously thinking again about getting one , I have various images and locations loating round my head, but what I reaally, really want is a vine of flowers creeping down my little finger and the side of my left hand. BUT I know I shouldn't really get a visible tattoo....as I am extremely likely to end up a teacher, and it's seriously frowned upon.
Other places I'm considering are the backof neck/behind ear, or feet. I don't plan to get loads, and I only want ickle ones. I think it's bullshit that teachers cannot have visible piercings, or tats. It in no way affects your ability to teach, and I thought we were supposed to teach kids that it's okay to show your individuality? Not that it's even particularly individual anymore! |
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| Violet Ecstasy |
Yeah I have my tongue pierced (had it done when I was 20) and I take it out for work. At my previous school they asked me to, even though I had a special bar with pink ends that you could barely see (that I ordered especially from America)... they said it affected my voice projection!
I don't wear it at my current place when I'm teaching, but I had it in today because we are off timetable for the week doing enrichment activities. It was a planning day for me cos I wasn't involved in any of the activities but I popped in to see some of the kids from my tutor group etc:) |
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| Miss Honey Bare |
It really bugs me that people still can't really be who they are a lot of the time because of their job. So what if your teacher has a tongue piercing? So what if you can see they have a tattoo on their arm? I guess they don't want the kids 'getting ideas' and wanting to get them when they grow up...pathetic. And the whole 'it just doesn't suit our image'....oh, right, so you want me to be a sheep and be like you and express what you like? What they're really saying is 'look, I'm prejudice against people like you, and so are our customers/clients. We are worried that people will be scared of you and will take their business elsewhere'. But if people are not allowed to have a few tatts and piercings etc in business/retail etc...then that prejudice will always be there, because people won't realise that we are actually normal, intelligent people with something to offer. And they will always be wary. Only on Saturday I saw a woman get up and move away from me on the bus and tut tutting at my tatts and piercings! I don't think I looked scary (I had a 1940'2 tea dress on with stockings), but she obviously didn't agree with my personal choice and made a show of it! I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again. It's the last form of 'acceptable' prejudice (along with teasing red haired people). I have people openly point and stare and say things aloud to their friends when they know I can clearly hear them 'eurgh, my god, why would you do that to yourself?' etc. Um...how is that ok? They probably wouldn't dream of doing it to a black person, a disabled person, a gay person....so why am I fair game? I asked someone that once, and they said 'cos you choose to look like that'....I don't really feel that it was a choice, as much as a need. I needed to express myself this way in order to feel like I am being my authentic self. Guess there's still a lot of work to be done, I can't wait for the day I can walk down the street without getting any abuse from anyone. |
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| Thrilby |
I know that you are only taking the mickey BB!!
How much easier would it be though not to have to worry about your seams being straight!!! To be honest I am not rushing to get them done as I have found out that you can't tattoo on the back of the ankle to have the fully fashioned effect. If I'm going to do it, I want to do it properly. There is also the consideration of work, similar to what is being said. I can't image it being too much of a problem, but as I am an event co-ordinator and have a lot of face to face customer work, I can image the commments I would get especially considering within the area I work, it is mainly men attending the events! I would love another pin up girl on my other hip, but i have to save first. Violet - my tattoos are out of the way, lower back, but under the waist band of my clothes and then up my spine and front of hip. It is not often people see then - usually if I am stretching and my top rides up, but that is not often. |
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| Miss Baby Bones |
lol im not sure about teachers and visible tattoos!!
i dunno. its odd. personally i think you should cover up all tattoos in any work place (unless its specifically an alternative place, like say a tattoo parlour or a rock bar...) the day tattoos become 'normal' and 'acceptable' to display is the day i want to scrub all mine off with a pumice stone. xxx |
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| Miss Honey Bare |
I don't think it should matter. Why should it be an issue if you are a doctor or a teacher or a banker and you have a bit of ink, or a tongue stud or whatever? It's like admitting that it's not acceptable to be who you really are/having tattoos is unacceptable if you say that you should cover them up. Gay people can be proud. Muslims have their right to wear their headscarves. Disabled people cannot be discrimminated at work and it doesn't matter what colour your skin is...of course, unless it's inked! It's ridiclulous! I work for a fashion house, and I can look how I like, so I'm lucky (though there are some places that wouldn't accept me because of the way I look, M&S for example). When I went to an agency after I graduated to find a job, the agent asked me if I would take my lip ring out, and I told her no. I'm just not prepared to compramise (at least for now anyway). I don't think there would ever be a day when tattoos are considered entirely 'normal' (whatever that may be), but I do think we can work towards them being accepted. |
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| Miss Baby Bones |
lol why is having tattoos like being gay or a religion?
i dont think you got my meaning hun. ill try be a little more clear. it is an odd subject, but for me personally, i like tattoos because for a white english person, they would be an alternative statement, a lifestyle choice. i want them to look imtimidating. my main thought when younger was i wanted to look scarier, and with tattoos i could do that. but they're not any more. they're very fashionable and i hate that. its just become so 'safe', and the more acceptable it is to have tattoos in places like where you work, the more i think tattoos look pointless. its got nothing to do with 'being accepted'. i got tattoos because i didnt want to be accepted by popular culture. now its like im a member of a fashion clones club i didnt want to be in. very frustrating. lol hope thats easier to understand. obviously thats just my view, but its something i feel strongly about. xxx |
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| Miss Honey Bare |
I see what you mean. I love having tattoos for some of the same reasons, ie. it's an alternative statement. But mostly because I just really love tattoos and retro style, and if I didn't have them I wouldn't quite feel like 'me'.
But the flip side to being 'alternative' is the constant barrage of abuse. Don't get me worng, I do get positive comments too, but for me it's not really about trying to scare anyone. I don't wear new rock boots and heavy black eye make-up to frighten the bejeesus out of people, it's because I find it aesthetically pleasing. And I really get annoyed when people feel they have to get up on the train or bus and move away from me because they are scared of what I might do. I'm a pussycat....they just assume I'm a bad person! I get damn well sick of people passing judgement and being rude. I equate it to being gay or black to emphasise the predjudice side of things. It's unacceptable for people to be rascist/ageist/homophobic etc...but then people have no problem with yelling 'hey freak bitch' and 'where are you off to? A funeral?'...etc. And I'm from London, I'm a born and raised Camden rat, so I imagine that I get a much easier ride than those living in smaller towns and cities! What about that poor goth girl killed only recently, simply because she was different? And for people to say 'well you choose to be like that, so you need to put up with the abuse' is simply not a good enough argument (and I hear it a lot). And so what if these 'fashionable' people get themselves sleeved up by the time they're 18? More fool them, because they may well regret it in time, but hey, who am I to tell people what they can and cannot do if they're not hurting me? It's part of their personal journey and growth as a person. It might teach them not to be so foolish and rush into following fashion and being a sheep. And who knows, they may find that if the older people on the scene accept them, they may end up dizcovering that they really enjoy the goth/psychobilly/burlesque lifestyle and scene and become 'one of us'. |
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| Miss Baby Bones |
at the risk of sounding like a total bastard, lol, if you want to look different then you should be prepared for the stick you'll get from the townie oiks.
it would be foolish not to expect it. xxx |
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| Miss Honey Bare |
But it's not just Chavs, it's just public in general.
Everyone knows that chavs are gonna have a go, doesn't mean it's ok. And people being jumped and beaten for being who they are is just awful. But I have heard of chavs coming unstuck at times. A few years ago, a couple of chavs started on a couple of goths walking along the canal after leaving the devonshire (now the hobgoblin...but you knew that)...the chavs tried to mug them, but ended up getting a kicking by the goths (new rocks can really do some damage...did they not realise this? duh!) and ended up in the canal! I just think this whole pre-concieved idea that alternative people are bad/evil/satan worshipping/amoral/difficult/freaks is stupid and people need to realise that we are in fact 'normal'. I have found that generally (though, of course, not always) 'alternative' people tend to be more accepting, open minded and well adjusted than the average Joe/Joanna! |
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| Herr Geist |
I'm going to go ahead and agree with Boney here. If you dress different than everyone else, you must be prepared to get negative attention from EVERYONE else. Not just ignorant chavs. Chavs are easy to spot because of how they dress so it's like an early warning sign that stupidity is coming your way. People that dress normal may be tolerant of alternative styles of clothing, but they also may not. Consider their normal mode of dress a form of urban camouflage. It's quite possible they're going to hate you even more than the chavs might.
Don't give other people credit and don't mistake what it means to dress differently than everyone else. If you make a spectacle out of yourself, you have to be ready for negative attention. If you can't handle that attention, find a nice pair of jeans and a t-shirt that will keep you from being assaulted. I've been dressing different since I was a teenager and I've had more than my share of idiots saying things, throwing things, and getting straight out violent with me. I knew what I was getting myself into. In this world, you will pay a price for your "individuality". That's just something you have to accept. In fact, if you DIDN'T get the negative attention, then you're not doing it right. |
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| Miss Honey Bare |
I disagree. It's not acceptable to be abusive to anyone for the way that they are. Whether it be because of the way you dress, your sexual orientation etc. And just saying 'well, ya' know, it happens, deal with it!' is like giving up and condoning it. And I don't believe that I can hide who or what I am because I am honest with myself. Fine, I 'choose' to look/be like this, but no more than a gay person 'chooses' to be themsleves, or a muslim who 'chooses' to be themselves. Do you really think it's ok for people to throw shit at you simply because you're different? When I was younger and things seemed to go wrong I always said to my mum 'it's not fair!' and she would reply 'life isn't fair!'...well you know what, what's wrong with trying to make it fair anyway, rather than just saying 'it happens'? I'm very passionate about this, I was a very 'mousy' person as a child and growing up I was relentlessly bullied in various and hideous ways. I was shy, introverted and wouldn't say boo to a goose, but always felt there was someone bursting to get out. It wasn't until I was 21 that I gave that person the reigns and 'came out' as it were. I still get shit, but for standing out. Difference is, I stand up for myself now. I have to rush to a meeting now (snor). I don't want to seem like a mardy arse, but I just get really worked up over stuff like this
-x- |
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| Herr Geist |
*sigh* Okay.... go get some tea or somethin' first. This is gonna take a little while.
I would never personally abuse anyone for being different, but you cannot lump clothing choices in with sexual orientation, religion, or race. You DO choose how you dress. Being gay, black, or Jewish are not choices. You're born that way. It cannot be helped. For example... if you're born an Iraqi person, even if you denounce your entire culture and live your life as a white protestant Christian, you will still be discriminated against and people will shout "terrorist" at you on the street. Even worse, your own people present more of a danger to you because now you've turned your back on your people. I have a friend who is gay and wishes that he was not because he knows his father will kill him (and he's not exaggerating, I've met his dad) if he ever finds out. He can't tell anyone and he has to live in secret. He can't just change his clothes when he leaves the house to solve his problem. Go tell a gay activist how you're similar to them because you get shit for the way you dress. See how similar you feel after that. How do you keep your ass from getting beat if you're a goth? Easy. You change your clothes! I find it almost offensive that you would include a style of fashion with any of these other minority groups. In fact, being alternative is such a great thing because it IS a choice. It's a celebration of human independence and the right to make choices. Don't treat it like some affliction that can't be helped. You're discrediting what being alternative stands for because you don't like being treated badly. Wear what you want and be proud of it. I have tattoos and I like dressing like a metalhead. I have chosen my path in life accordingly. I am not a teacher, though I could be. I am not a CEO, though I could be. I am not working in some stuffy office somewhere, though I could be. I chose to be different because that's how I feel comfortable and I am really glad that I have the choice to do so. If I have to fight for it, I will. There is no way to stand out from the norm and be completely loved and accepted by everyone. The problem we have now is that there are people out there who dress alternative but don't have the strength or conviction to stand proudly behind it and fight for it. The ideals behind the clothing are what is important. You stand alone against the rest of the world and make your statements because no one else will. When people started dressing goth, punk, whatever, it was meant to be a way to show your desire to go against the grain. The clothing was a reflection of what was inside you. That you were willing to be strong and fight for what you thought was right. This meant taking on the bad and laughing it away. Or fighting if necessary. Now that dressing alternative is nothing more than a bland fashion statement, we have people whining how they should be treated fairly no matter how they dress. GOOD FUCKIN LORD what have we turned into? Don't even get me started on people who listen to Black Flag but can't fight their own battles. *SCREAMS* God, people make me sick.
Your mother has the right of it. Life ISN'T fair. No, you cannot change that. You'd like to. EVERYONE would like to, but think of it like this. If YOU want life to be fair to YOUR ideals, and THEY want life to be fair to THEIR ideals, we come full-circle and everyone's individual rights for the sake of fairness start to tread all over each other. Then, we have conflict again. It's the pursuit of a FAIR life that makes life UNFAIR. There will always be conflict until someone comes along and teaches people what acceptance truly is, but as long as there is ignorance in this world, life will never be fair and no amount of laws or special interest groups or charity is going to change that. Ever. Period. It's just the nature of the human race. Besides, you don't HAVE to dress different to love a certain style of music or a certain culture. You just do. It's just like a white person choosing to be Muslim. They don't have to, but they do. Will they ever be called a terrorist? Not if they don't wear the clothes and don't tell anyone.
That's great. Now you're out. And you've had hardships that should make you strong, but it sounds to me like you think it's time to "push back" and you're not thinking about it logically. It all comes down to this. Unless you can sit down with each individual person who dislikes what you or your clothing/tattoos represent and make them see the light, you cannot change the world. Since there are billions of them and maybe a few million of us all over the world, it's not a battle we're gonna win. Benefit concerts, charities, awareness rallies, etc. You know what those accomplish? Nothing. Nothing except giving a bunch of like-minded people a place to gather and meet each other. That's it. You wanna change people? You wanna make them more tolerant? Start with those close to you. Make them see that you're a good person and express your ideals in a logical and convincing way. You may convert one person. Then they might convert or inspire one person. And so it goes. But we will never be accepted completely and we will never have it easy if we choose to keep dressing like we do. Why do you think there are so many older people that USED to be goth or punk but aren't anymore? They got tired of fighting and to solve their problem, they changed their clothes. But they're still liberals and they're still thinking the same.
Meetings suck. I've gotta go dye my roots black like I have every 2 weeks for the past 14 years. |
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| Miss Honey Bare |
Oooo-kay...
This has gotten a little bit mental. My original point was simply that people should be able to be accepted. That it shouldn't matter if you've got a bit of ink and steel and commenting on the fact that I hate the shit I get sometimes. And I do stick up for myself. And I do put up with the crap, otherwise I would've turned and run already. I don't see myself as whiney in the least, just fucked off and ready to put anyone who gives me shit to rights. Being a bi-sexual women who has been in long term relationships with women, I lump how I look into the same group 'cos it all feels the same to me when people start getting abusive. It's abusive whether they're shouting 'dyke' or ' frankenstein' or 'dykey bride of frankenstein'...lol....yes, I really have heard that one before. Blargh, anyway all this heated debate has made me excited...need to get home and have a cold shower
14 years of dying your roots...now that's what I call dedication dude! 
Have fun! -x- |
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| Herr Geist |
And my point, explained at length, is that people aren't going to be accepting. We started dressing this way so people wouldn't treat us the same. We wanted to stand out so people might pay attention. That always comes with a backlash.
So, really, you just have to suck it up. I'm not trying to be mean. Once you actually see things for what they are, it all gets a lot easier to cope with. In fact, you get to laugh about it a lot. It becomes enjoyable and you feel great about things. |
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| Miss Baby Bones |
dye your roots every 2 weeks? i think id go mad! lol
your hair must grow quickly. yeah i have to say, i cant be arsed to dress up any more. if im going out for something and actually do 'dress up', i like to take my big umbrella with me in preparation to defend myself. if i wasnt prepared for abuse id make an easier target. its a sad world but unfortunately thats the reality of it xxx |
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